Curse

Gabs88 · Jan 20, 2012, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Each Paragon averages ~62 DPS

Pre 6th of january numbers but 1x SoS > 3x Paragons + Imbagon DPS wise.

Paragon DPS may have gone up a bit with the armor reduction too but still 1x SoS > 2 Paragons + Imbagon at best. And while the imbagon allows you to bring more offencive human builds, the same is not true for heroes as they remain pretty much the same as always. Hence, imbagon > bad for general gameplay.

Kunder · Jan 20, 2012, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Pre 6th of january numbers but 1x SoS > 3x Paragons + Imbagon DPS wise.

Paragon DPS may have gone up a bit with the armor reduction too but still 1x SoS > 2 Paragons + Imbagon at best. And while the imbagon allows you to bring more offencive human builds, the same is not true for heroes as they remain pretty much the same as always. Hence, imbagon > bad for general gameplay.

lolwut?

SoS did 25 damage per attack x 3 attacks / 2s per attack = 37.5 DPS for all 3 spirits. A single Paragon does over 60, and more importantly the paragon is focused on one target instead of spread out over multiple targets. Even if you use Painful Bond you only reach 67.5 DPS, assuming every shot hits a hexed target (which never happens), and the damage is still not focused which sucks balls. After the nerf you only reach 60 DPS which means that even SoS + Painful Bond is doing less than a single Paragon doing nothing but autoattacking. Before you talk about Paragon damage being nerfed from high armor, 90% of the ~63 DPS figure I gave was armor ignoring damage and I already reduced the armor-affected damage by over half in my calculations. Against 60 AL the Paragon would be doing something like 75-80 DPS.

SoS has never output good damage. Now, if you want to talk about Splinter Weapon on the other hand, you might be able to make a point (>170 DPS in optimal situations and preloadable to do 4x that at the beginning of battle).

LexTalionis · Jan 20, 2012, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

I sense a lot of hurt egos and pros in this thread, why though? This guy simply asked a question about a profession.

As far as I know, there isn't any ego bruising going on. It's just a forum of opinions, and I'm certainly not going "SO-AND-SO IS WRONG AND SILLY", because I can acknowledge the existence of multiple truths as opposed to an absolute one.

Generally, if you dislike debates over a difference of opinion, it may be a good idea to avoid forums.

Inferos · Jan 20, 2012, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

I sense a lot of hurt egos and pros in this thread, why though? This guy simply asked a question about a profession.

I don't think this is the case at all. People are simply posting opinions, and others are replying with their opinions. This is, in a way, how new ideas and new builds spawn. Someone throws something out, another person throw something out as a rebuttal of sorts, and then someone merges the two and makes a build.

This whole thread has been great guys, I wasn't expecting all of this "theorycrafting" and discussion when I posted it.

Chthon · Jan 21, 2012, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Setting aside for a moment my objection that the question isn't worth answering (since anyone who has any hope of completing UW HM 7H can figure out the answer for his or herself).....

The discussion here has been terrible. Most of the posts have not related to UW at all. The few that have related to UW make no sense. (Ranger, lulwut?)

Since no one else is answering the question that was asked, I'll give a brief answer:

If you want to get past 4H, you're probably going to need to take the lead on damage dealing. That's going to mean either running a warrior and using Jack-style micro-intensive tank-n-spank, or using a high-damage AoE build. Assuming the 1/5/12 update hasn't introduced any surprises that means necro (AP-MoP) or ele (AP-earth, AP-air, maybe SF (but SF is worthless at Dhumm) or one of the new elites post-update). Conceivably a derv could reach comparable levels of damage if you could be sure of getting proper balls every time you needed them (PR or VS with Reap Impurities, probably Sand Shards too); it might also be able to tank like a warrior if protted. Same could maybe be said for a JS-FS-DB sin. Everything else is probably too weak to kill one side fast enough.

(I suppose you could maybe run a build for tanking one side (or making the reaper tank) and hope 7 heroes can manage the other side without your input. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever done this. That would mean assassin (SF), ele (obby flesh or ER to make reaper tank), monk (Spellbreaker, SoA to make the reaper tank), or maybe Rit (spirit spam; very dicey since full human teams have trouble killing one side with the amount of time spirit spam is able to buy). The serious downside to this approach is that your build is going to be pretty worthless for everything else (except the ER ele).)

Beyond the "do a lot of damage really fast" aspect of 4H, warriors and warrior secondaries are at a big advantage with SY!.

Finally, abusing Earthbind is very, very helpful with Dhuum. That's an advantage to anything with spammable KD. The most obvious choices being hammer stuff (warrior), Brawling Headbutt (melee), and GDW (casters with good e-management (aka necro)).

So, I'd say warrior, necro, or ele would be your best bet.

(Btw, the three people who I'm aware of actually doing UW 7H used warrior, ele, and necro (although the necro used cons for Dhumm)).

Gabs88 · Jan 21, 2012, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

lolwut?

SoS did 25 damage per attack x 3 attacks / 2s per attack = 37.5 DPS for all 3 spirits. A single Paragon does over 60, and more importantly the paragon is focused on one target instead of spread out over multiple targets. Even if you use Painful Bond you only reach 67.5 DPS, assuming every shot hits a hexed target (which never happens), and the damage is still not focused which sucks balls. After the nerf you only reach 60 DPS which means that even SoS + Painful Bond is doing less than a single Paragon doing nothing but autoattacking. Before you talk about Paragon damage being nerfed from high armor, 90% of the ~63 DPS figure I gave was armor ignoring damage and I already reduced the armor-affected damage by over half in my calculations. Against 60 AL the Paragon would be doing something like 75-80 DPS.

SoS has never output good damage. Now, if you want to talk about Splinter Weapon on the other hand, you might be able to make a point (>170 DPS in optimal situations and preloadable to do 4x that at the beginning of battle).

Im talking about a character, not a single skill. Against master of damage

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The discussion here has been terrible. Most of the posts have not related to UW at all. The few that have related to UW make no sense. (Ranger, lulwut?)

If you check what the OP says he's simply a new player wondering about what class to go 50/50 with and he thought he needed to do UW HM with heroes so he put that forth as a benchmark.

bhavv · Jan 26, 2012, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Elementalist is also best if you are capable of E/mo protting.

The easiest class to get to 50/50 with is a rit.

Gabs88 · Jan 26, 2012, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The easiest class to get to 50/50 with is a rit.

Meh, it helps having a class that's good at soloing if you gotta farm a lot of cash. But if money is not your problem then ritualist is a bad choice, simply because it's hard to be efficient with a relaxed playstyle. Playing as ST is overkill in 95% of the zones in the game and lacks bar compression and energy management for PVE skills. SoS simply gets dull after a while, and the player can generally be replaced by a hero.

Which leaves AP caller, which recuires constant calling and button spamming to be effective. It is very effective for Rit's ATM though, with the armor reduction from the elementalist patch giving explosive growth a buff.

But still, 50\50 takes at least like 3-4 months to complete. If you get boored and demotivated with your class half-way then it's not a good choice. Hence why I think an Assassin or Dervish or Elementalist is better.

Assassin and Dervish primarily because of beeing good overall melee characters. So as long as you stay a bit ahead of the group you get reasonable effectiveness and you don't have to call targets.

Elementalist because of all the different builds you can play and still maintain effectiveness. Anything from Shockwave to Stone Sheath to water builds to AP builds to all the different fire builds.

PS: I did GWAMM at rit myself. So it's only interesting for the first 15 titles or so, when you just got a little bit left you start hating the class.

JONO51 · Jan 26, 2012, 04:28 PM // 16:28

If you can trade for cash then go with whatever class you find fun. If you have to farm for cash roll a sin.